Model Railroad Podcast
|
Model Railcast Show #63
Tue, May 12, 2009
|
| Posted by: Ryan Andersen |
|
SHOW #63 CAR CARD AND WAYBILL EXTRAVAGANZA with Craig Bisgeier, Dave Ramos, Ralph Heiss, & Tim (Note: there is no aac version right now, so just download the mp3... I will post an m4a version later)
Departure Tracks Show Sponsors
Have an iPod or other Apple brand device? Then subscribe to the AAC feed here Note: The "Listen" link below is for the mp3 version, not the m4a- for some reason the link on this page was pointing to the show 62 link; although the link on the "continued" page was working correctly. |
comments(16)
•
 boasted(0)
•
 toasted(0)
• Listen
|
| |
Comments  show votes |
|
Posted by:
Ryman
 on Tue, May 12 2009
www.modelrailcast.com/Tim,
Thanks for doing the show this week. |
|
Posted by:
darkterritory
on Tue, May 12 2009
www.Housatonicrr.comRyan,
The MP3 link above is still pointing to show # 62... |
|
Posted by:
Ironsiderodger
on Tue, May 12 2009
www.ironsaddcasts.mypodcast.comNo prob my man, thanks for being patient with it taking me 549,000,890 hours to get 'r' done.
|
|
Posted by:
darkterritory
on Wed, May 13 2009
www.Housatonicrr.comWow... Too much caffeine, apparently - sorry for speaking so fast through the whole thing!
|
|
Posted by:
Ironsiderodger
on Wed, May 13 2009
www.ironsaddcasts.mypodcast.comI'm probably far from objective, but still, I don't think it was too fast- there was a lot of material to cover and not get bogged down, keeping speech at a good clip keeps the show more dynamically paced. Besides that's why God created the rewind button...
|
|
Posted by:
bobcatt
on Thu, May 14 2009
bobcatts2bits.blogspot.com/Craig's, Dave's & Ralph's comments on "the game" of model railroading were excellent. It is said that you can judge the level of a society by the sophistication of its play. Simulation of a system using accurate models is a complex form of play though, understandably, not to everyone's taste.
I recall a very simple car forwarding system based on thumbtacks or small discs that were attached directly to the car roofs. Each disc had a colour and a letter code. This represented the destination and car type. You could very quickly make up trains that would move in an acceptably purposeful manner, without getting into a lot of paperwork. |
toasted comment hidden
|
|
Posted by:
ChrisNH
on Thu, May 14 2009
model-railroad-hobbyist.com/blog/671Sid Meier, the legendary game designer who brought us, amongst other titles, Railroad Tycoon, once said "A good game is an interesting series of decisions". I would say the same about a good op session. I was really pleased that the discussion of operations captured that aspect.
The waybill system I have been looking at was one I read about in the Fall 08 LDSIG journal. It has one card for each industry spot. Before the op session, the layout owner takes cards and moves them to cars in staging. This has the effect of creating empties for pickup and loads to come in. What I like is it solves balance problems.. you will not have more cars then you planned arriving.. and you will not have more work then the size of crew you anticipate showing up can handle. The other thing I like is that it makes "requests for empties" trivial to implement. This was my own thought.. but it would be easy to expand the system to take waybills for outbound loads and hand some or all of them to the yardmaster. The yardmaster then needs to find appropriate empties to forward to the industry to take that waybill.. which I feel would be an "interesting decision". Two notes about car cards / waybills in general- 1. Color coding is a HUGE benefit to anyone who may have guest operators. Realistic or not, being able to tell a new operator "blues go north, Yellows go south, and the grays get interchanged wit the NYC" allows them to hit the ground running. 2. N-scale has some issues regarding reading car numbers and identifying cars. To get around that.. I highly recommend a picture of the car on the car card. This is even more helpful in a modern layout where car paint schemes are more distinctive. Good lighting and a good layout height become critical. 3. Troughs to allow one to sort cards and place them in train order is a nice addition to the usual industry boxes and critical for a yard to ease drilling tracks. Finally.. on the subject of "pipe dreams".. I have a back burner project I want to address when, you know, I have a layout and stuff.. it involves generating wheel reports. My vision is to put a barcode on the waybill and on the car card. Quickly beeping through a stack of cards enters data to the computer that prints a wheel report.. basically a switch list you can refer to in order to see what drop offs you have for each town. This gives you a nice paper switch list without having to go to the bother of writing it all down. This could be expanded.. but its a way to introduce rfid without having to implement it on the actual cars.. The hardware side is easy.. drivers for barcode readers will "paste" the value right into a cell of a database or spreadsheet and hit "enter" for you. The only challenge would be having all the cards and waybills in a database so they can be linked together into a list as you beep them in.. Chris PS- that got way too long... sorry.. |
|
Posted by:
bobcatt
on Thu, May 14 2009
bobcatts2bits.blogspot.com/"N-scale has some issues regarding reading car numbers and identifying cars."
The big N scale layout I operated on a couple of years ago (1600+ cars) did NOT use the car number. It was sufficient to refer to the car's RR name, type (ie. XM), and colour. This worked fine. Looking for a brown NYC boxcar instead of 53481 was straightforward. |
|
Posted by:
alkemscalemodels
on Thu, May 14 2009
www.alkemscalemodels.comCouple comments on the show:
I hope the comments on computer switch lists don't start a flame war with the computer switch list crowd. While I tend to agree with the Craig, Dave and Ralph, there are others that like the automated systems. As a boomer operator I tend to disagree that color coding helps. I find it easier to just read names for destinations and not have to remember what colors go where. Colors add one more thing that to memorize in what can be a hectic session. At some of the round robin op sessions I have attended, where you are operating on 2 or sometimes 3 layouts in a day, keeping it simple is important. The car card system, being somewhat a defacto standard, really helps in situations like that. |
|
Posted by:
ChrisNH
on Thu, May 14 2009
model-railroad-hobbyist.com/blog/671In a recent experience I operated a satellite yard. Knowing all blue cars were local industries for me to switch, gray cars were to be assembled into a train headed to the New Haven, and (if I remember) orange cars were put on a car float and all other colors went to the classification yard made my job a lot easier.
I think its less of an issue if you are not classifying cars. Otherwise, I had to not only know what the names of all the on-layout towns were but also the off layout ones that were for NH and to be sent across the Bay of Fundy. I think the best of both worlds is to put a color strip on the card. You can choose to use it or just read the town, as you choose. Chris btw- these guys also interchange cars with each other's protolance roads.. so one more source of unknown names.. |
|
Posted by:
Ironsiderodger
on Thu, May 14 2009
www.ironsaddcasts.mypodcast.comThanks Bernie,
I certainly hope no flame war is started with computer switch list fans either, I had hoped I made sure that enough disclaimers- for instance Craig stating many times things in preferential terms, along with Dave and Ralph, even the second part of the roundhouse starts with Craig apologizing if we seemed to dog-pile on the switch list. I think I can say that what was hoped would come across was the legitimacy of both systems, but how with people of the operational mindset of myself and the three gents the switch list fell short of our needs- which are neither inferior or superior to the switch-list enthusiast; just different. Thus, if any here are a switch list fan and you felt unfairly singled out, the fault is my own for not making this point more clearer. Let me say right here and now none of the gents or myself wish to see the end of all switch lists and think they are useless and unfriendly to the operator- simply that to our style of operating they fall short- even as to the switch list user the methods discussed here may fall equally short for them. And Darcy, I'll let Ryan know. |
|
Posted by:
darkterritory
on Thu, May 14 2009
www.Housatonicrr.comHey Guys
Great comments so far. Just wanted to touch on a few things that have been said... First, about color coding - works fine for 90% of the male population, but for the 1 in 10 who are color blind (like me) it's a disaster. I once screwed up John DePauw's EJ&E layout so badly that it took three sessions to straighten it out. Reason? He used a color coded system of dots on his car cards I could not see, and cars ended up going every which way. Instead of color I suggest using alpha-numeric codes, almost as easy and prototypical to boot. Glad to see that many of you agreed with the gaming aspect of operations. I think that when you look at it like this it provides a lot of insight into how you should set up and run the car forwarding and train movement systems on a layout. In fact in a recent Dispatchers' Office issue I wrote an article on adding Event cards to operating sessions to introduce another gaming element (and an additional bit of fun). Not everyone's cup of tea but an example of things we can take from the gaming world and apply to out operating sessions. I'm also really glad to see so many options on the car card and waybill system being discussed. It shows me that a lot of you are not afraid to adapt the system to meet your needs, which was something I stressed at the end of the show. The bottom line is if it works for you then it is successful! I too hope there won't be a flame war. But I felt I needed to be honest about my opinions on the various systems. There are issues with carcard and waybills too, and I hope I touched on them also. I think we can all be adults about this and freely discuss the benefits and shortcomings of many systems with out getting personal. Glad so many of you enjoyed the show! Keep the comments coming! Craig |
|
Posted by:
ChrisNH
on Thu, May 14 2009
model-railroad-hobbyist.com/blog/671"color coding - works fine for 90% of the male population, but for the 1 in 10 who are color blind (like me) it's a disaster"
By coincidence, the layout owner of the layout I mentioned was color blind.. so the shades of colors varied greatly and required some interpretation.. Chris |
|
Posted by:
Jason
on Fri, May 15 2009
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jasons_ttco/
Wow what great discussion. It was very interesting to hear all of the experiences with different types of set ups. I'm a boomer myself. I haven't work a real ops session yet. But it is one of the many things I'm starting to read and edu-ma-cate myself on. The show really pushed m basic understanding along ways.
So thanks guys for another great show Jason |
|
Guys Great Show!
After listening to Car Card Waybill discussion, I was in search of a PDF file which I had read in the past which very graphically shows the Car Card / Waybill in action. The one thing that is nice about this presentation is that it shows the four cycles of the waybill. I just thought I would throw this into the mix. Just print this PDF, grab a glass of wine or a beer, and watch the operation step by step! Hope this helps anyone who might not understand. The author did a very nice job! Car Card Waybill Steve |
| A Model Railroad focused podcast/blog. For railroading beginners and seasoned line veterans. |
home
Photo Gallery
More Content
Pioneer Content
Support Posters
Show Products
Login
MRCS Forum
MRCS#157
MRCS#156
MRCS Swag
MRH Magazine
Shortline Modelers Lounge
Alkem Scale Models
Amesville Shops
LogicRailTech
Minuteman Scale Models
Motrak Models
Paw of a Bear
Railroad Kits
Tam Valley Depot
MRR Forum
Bernie's USMRR
Craig's Housatonic RR
Hallet Cove Southern
Lebanon Valley Blog
Marty McGuirk's Blog
New York Harbor RR
Siskiyou (Joe Fugate)
Stockton & Copperopolis
Stones River RR
The McNamara Blog
Tom Wilson's PWVRR
MRCS YouTube Group
December 2011
MRCS#155
MRCS#154
MRCS#153
November 2011
MRCS#152
MRCS#151
Use iTunes to receive our weekly show and have it delivered right to your computer or MP3 player automatically.
