Model Railroad Podcast

MRCS#114
Mon, Jul 26, 2010
Posted by: Ryan Andersen

Show #114 - Proto:48 - There are Two Philosophies
...with Trevor, Tim, Jeff, Skipper and Ryan.

Updates from the Crew

Round House - Proto:48
  • Trevor explains Proto:48
  • Proto:48, why you do not need a machine shop
  • History and other details on Proto:48
Show Links
That's a Wrap
  • Length: 1.5 hrs
  • special thanks to Trevor Marshall, Jeff Adam and Ben and Tim.
  • The Model Railcast Pioneers support this show! Thanks Guys!
  • Support your model railroad community, sponsor the Model Railcast Show, contact Ryan
    ryan (a-t) modelrailcast.com
  • Hey Pioneers, Show #114 extended will be posted shortly in the usual area.

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Posted by: motrak MRCS Pioneer on Mon, Jul 26 2010     www.motrakmodels.com
If anyone needs a color chart from Scalecoat paint, send me an email at motrakmodels@verizon.net and I'll send one back to you.
Thanks,
Posted by: alkemscalemodels MRCS Pioneer on Tue, Jul 27 2010     www.alkemscalemodels.com
Always a pleasure to listen to Trevor and his projects. I like the idea of a P48 connection with the On2.

Do you use "scale wheels" for the On2 also?

I would think that a layout like the one that Ian Rice designed in MRP for Peterborogh (sp?) in MRP a few years back would make a good P48 project.

Jeff - congrats on the paint deal.
Posted by: Trevor-On2 MRCS Pioneer on Tue, Jul 27 2010    
Hi Bernie:

Thanks for the positive feedback. I hope I was able to stress that while Proto:48 attracts many craftsmen, there are people of all levels of ability participating in this niche of O scale. What unites us, I think, is the desire to build models that are as realistic as they can be - accepting that to do so is going to require some extra effort, some careful choices and (for many, but not for everyone) more modest layout ambitions. For example, it took me two days to build a single, 50-ton Bettendorf freight car truck in Proto:48, from a brass kit from Protocraft that ran $60+ for a pair of trucks. But it's absolutely the nicest looking truck I have - including full brake detail that could be made to operate if one desired. (I know you're already doing that on your civil war-era trucks, so you'll appreciate this.)

You asked...

| Do you use "scale wheels" for the On2 also?

On2 (and On3) were designed from the outset with prototypical wheel profiles and an accurate track gauge of 24" and 36" respectively. So the answer is "yes", not because I made a conscious decision to do so, but because that's the default.

I'm actually having so much fun with the Proto:48 that I can see a day - in the not too distant future - when I retire the On2 layout and model in Proto:48 full-time. It's that rewarding.

Cheers!

- Trevor
Posted by: Trevor-On2 MRCS Pioneer on Tue, Jul 27 2010    
Railway Prototype Modeler meets
- I don't think current O scale modelers are likely to convert to Proto:48 - they already have a huge investment in O scale (1.25" gauge) track and equipment. Rather, I think it'll be those doing fine work in smaller scales, looking to move to O scale as they get older and want to work on larger models. Those people can be found at Railway Prototype Modeler (RPM) meets.
- Proto:48 modelers are increasingly aware of RPM meets, and are attending them.
- Those wanting to know about RPM meets where Proto:48 will be on display can ask on the Proto:48 yahoo group listed above.
- Here are links to a few of the biggest RPM meets:

Naperville, Milwaukee, San Bernardino:
http://www.ppw-aline.com/rpm.htm

Cocoa Beach:
http://www.prototyperails.com/

New England:
http://www.neprototypemeet.com/Welcome.html

Bay Area Prototype Modelers:
http://www.bayareaprototypemodelers.net/

- Trevor
Posted by: Trevor-On2 MRCS Pioneer on Tue, Jul 27 2010    
Hi again everyone:
Here are some more links to Proto:48 related sites I discussed (or meant to discuss) on the show.
- Trevor

Proto:48 Modeler:
http://www.proto48.org
- Online magazine about Proto:48 modeling. Lots of inspiration.

Proto:48 Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/p48_modeler
- The place where people talk Proto:48.

Mike Cougill's web site:
http://www.cougillstudios.com/
- Philosophy, a Proto:48 layout, and a great series of Proto:48 / O scale modeling books.

Protocraft web site:
http://www.protocraft.com/
- Wheels, couplers, and lots more.

Rich Yoder web site:
http://www.richyodermodels.com
- Proto:48 brass diesels, freight cars, and ready to run trucks

Glacier Park Models web site:
http://www.glacierparkmodels.com/
- O scale brass steam engines with factory-provided Proto:48 conversion kits

Lance Mindheim:
http://www.lancemindheim.com/bookstore.htm
- Lance has a great book on layout planning, called "How to Design a Small Switching Layout", which is illustrated with an HO layout but may lead modelers to consider Proto:48.
Posted by: bobcatt MRCS Pioneer on Tue, Jul 27 2010     bobcatts2bits.blogspot.com/
Trevor's comments on the two philosophies of P48 are particularly interesting. It's obvious that a lot of thought has gone into taking the plunge into this aspect of the hobby.

At the root, the entire PROTO premise (in any scale) is merely an improved definition of track and wheel standards. However, most adherents are taking the concept of 'more accurate' to its logical end by striving for maximum realism in all facets of the model building process. It follows that there's little point in having perfectly proportioned track and wheels if the grab-irons and roofwalks are made from staples and popsicle sticks respectively.

Thanks for promoting the idea that it's not such a bad thing to adopt high standards.

Don't forget that P87 & P64 are viable options for HO and S; while ScaleSeven and ScaleFour are the 'Finescale' equivalents in British O and OO scales.

Just to be redundant (omissions deliberate):

ratio....name.....linear.................note
1:160.....N...... ..1.9mm = 1'....American "N" scale (there are 1:148 and other variants)
1:152.....2mm....2mm = 1'.......2mm Scale Association, considered Finescale already
1:87.1....HO......3.5mm = 1'....Half-0, that is half-zero scale, not really half-O
1:76.......OO......4mm = 1'.......Double-O, chiefly UK
1:64.......S.........3/16" = 1'
1:48.......O.........1/4" = 1'.......American "O" scale
1:43.5....0.........7mm = 1'.......0 Gauge, British, (originally called zero, not 'oh')
1:32.......1.........3/8" = 1'.......Gauge 1

After getting fed up with metric/odd imports, American manufacturers of O scale trains adopted 1/4" as their linear scale, instead of 7mm. However, there was already a good many miles of track laid, and many trucks and locomotives already built to the gauge of British 0. Modern models built to a a scale of 1:48, but running on a track gauged for vintage models built to a scale of 1:43 end up measuring 5' 0" gauge instead of 4' 8-1/2". This disparity is where the impetus comes from to create finer standards for American O, hence the Proto48 (originally 1/4"AAR) movement.

note: the NMRA currently recognises 5 scales (G, 1, O, S, HO) with "Proto" and 3 scales (HO, TT, N) with "Fine" trackwork and wheel contour specifications for both standard and 3' gauge.
Posted by: alkemscalemodels MRCS Pioneer on Tue, Jul 27 2010     www.alkemscalemodels.com
I suppose I could mention that I am in the process of developing wooden beam trucks for P48 1860s era cars. These are being done for an individual client, but I will make them available on my web site for public purchase in case anyone else wants them.
Posted by: CVSNE MRCS Pioneer on Wed, Jul 28 2010     snery.com
Enjoyed the show.

Mullett River Models just released an O scale CV van . . . maybe I need a shelf model?

Marty
Posted by: Trevor-On2 MRCS Pioneer on Thu, Jul 29 2010    
Marty:
I think you do.
I have a couple of kits from these folks...
http://mulletrivermodelworks.com/
... and they build into beautiful models. Mullet River is doing a really nice job of combining different media, like laser cut wood and etched metal, to make superb kits.
Cheers!
- Trevor
Posted by: deemery MRCS Pioneer on Thu, Jul 29 2010     www.earlyrail.org/SLN
Trevor, within the Proto-48 community, what's the distribution of era? Is late steam/early diesel most popular in Proto-48?

dave
Posted by: Trevor-On2 MRCS Pioneer on Fri, Jul 30 2010    
Hi Dave:
I'm only guessing here, but I'd say the steam-diesel era is less popular, percentage-wise, than it would be in standard O scale (with 1.25" gauge) - simply because finding a P:48 steam engine (or converting one from 1.25" gauge) can be a challenge. There are definitely P:48 steam-powered layouts, but diesels are relatively straightforward to convert, so one is more likely to find an all-diesel P:48 layout.
Perhaps somebody else can add to this...?
- Trevor
Posted by: Stocky MRCS Pioneer on Tue, Aug 3 2010    
Hi Guys,

I have added some photos of some of Brett Whelan's Proto 48 structures, all are completely scratch built.

He has a Yahoo group where you can follow the construction of his layout - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/p48layout/

Cheers Graham (Stocky)
 
 
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